to me, it was nothing to go to a congressman from ohio for something in florida or texas, as i did. unfortunately, he also went to prison for this. but lobbyists do not view it that congressmen are just for their district. they are for everyone. so lobbyists, come up with reasons why this is an invincible at home. so it is part of every lobbying effort. >> how would you foresee reforms like you suggested actually coming into being? have you got any master plan? >> i did not know that was important. [laughter] it will be difficult. who benefit from this life style to get rid of this lifestyle. ultimately, it will be a question of the media shining daylight on this stuff and exposing it like what "60 minutes" did with insider trading. until they did do that, nobody was thinking about that. when i was a lobbyist, we heard about members and staff and they would come in sometimes and said i made a killing in defense or something like that. there will be a big bill. frankly, i thought there were knuckleheads buying 100 shares of something and making $200. who cares? it didn't dawn on me.